WEBVTT 00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:02.280 [müzik] 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:32.300 And now on with the podcast. 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:36.220 Yeah, I think we're at 354, 55, somewhere in there right now. 00:00:36.380 --> 00:00:38.400 So it's a lot. 00:00:38.720 --> 00:00:45.160 It's been, you know, for a while, when we thought COVID was going to be that two, three week thing, 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:51.740 we started doing like five a week because we were talking to people every week about what was going on. 00:00:51.800 --> 00:00:56.520 And then after about a month of that, we realized, oh, this isn't going to be a three week thing. 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:58.100 And we went back to the weekly schedule. 00:00:58.100 --> 00:01:06.420 So that was a little bit, but there was a big, a big push back in early 2020, then 00:01:06.520 --> 00:01:08.500 that we ended up having a whole lot more episodes. 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:09.700 So that was part of it. 00:01:09.800 --> 00:01:09.940 Yeah. 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:11.820 At this point you're doing week weekly. 00:01:11.880 --> 00:01:12.660 We're doing weekly. 00:01:12.980 --> 00:01:13.040 Yep. 00:01:13.660 --> 00:01:13.840 Yeah. 00:01:14.520 --> 00:01:14.680 Yeah. 00:01:14.900 --> 00:01:15.200 Gotcha. 00:01:15.420 --> 00:01:18.260 Thrown in an extra one every now and then, but mostly just weekly. 00:01:18.720 --> 00:01:18.940 Yeah. 00:01:19.380 --> 00:01:19.520 Yeah. 00:01:20.020 --> 00:01:20.240 Neat. 00:01:20.500 --> 00:01:20.660 Neat. 00:01:21.520 --> 00:01:21.740 Cool. 00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:23.140 I mean, I think we'll get started in just a minute. 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:26.579 I just want to share like in this show, like, um, so, so first of all, like 00:01:26.520 --> 00:01:29.580 I'm the founder of Cast Us, we're a podcast hosting platform like a 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:30.960 Libsyn or a blueberry that you might use. 00:01:31.940 --> 00:01:36.680 And, and the goal of this show really is to, well, one, like it's, it's 00:01:37.160 --> 00:01:38.360 awesome for me to talk to podcasters. 00:01:38.420 --> 00:01:42.420 So I've been doing this a while, like we have 280 episodes of my podcast. 00:01:42.520 --> 00:01:45.780 So not, not quite as many, but it's been doing it a long time. 00:01:45.820 --> 00:01:49.520 And then like, it's really healthy for me to stay like chatting with 00:01:49.780 --> 00:01:50.860 podcasters about what they're doing. 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:53.900 Uh, and, and to keep learning, cause like you, you, you do something for a 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:55.600 while and you think, you know, and you don't. 00:01:55.620 --> 00:02:02.980 So, so first of all, it's like, just love talking to folks and see like what, what 00:02:03.060 --> 00:02:04.360 they're doing and what's working and what's not. 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:07.740 And then like we record this and it's helpful for everyone else, but, but really 00:02:07.780 --> 00:02:09.539 it's just like an educational experience. 00:02:11.440 --> 00:02:15.000 It's one of the things that Tim, Tim, my cohost and me talk about, right. 00:02:15.040 --> 00:02:20.080 It's like, ah, we, we just being able to, to do this and to talk to the 00:02:20.320 --> 00:02:21.400 people that we get to talk to. 00:02:21.440 --> 00:02:26.760 It's like a Nobel laureates wouldn't just pick up the phone and say, Hey, sure. 00:02:26.790 --> 00:02:30.800 I'll spend an hour with you just talking unless we had a podcast, you know, 00:02:31.220 --> 00:02:32.120 which they do. 00:02:32.320 --> 00:02:36.600 And that's just, it's an, it's an amazing opportunity to just talk and learn. 00:02:36.720 --> 00:02:38.060 And I just love that part. 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:38.380 So. 00:02:39.020 --> 00:02:39.680 Yeah, neat. 00:02:40.060 --> 00:02:40.700 Let's dive into that. 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.280 Like, how do you approach guests? 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:43.420 Right. 00:02:43.460 --> 00:02:46.800 Because it's you and a cohost plus the guests, like that's a lot of logistics. 00:02:46.900 --> 00:02:48.920 A lot of folks have one or the other. 00:02:49.220 --> 00:02:49.920 Do you find it? 00:02:49.940 --> 00:02:50.840 And you've done so many episodes. 00:02:50.860 --> 00:02:52.740 Like, do you find all of the logistics difficult, 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:54.640 or do you all have a system down for it now? 00:02:55.540 --> 00:02:59.520 - The logistics are always never easy, for the most part. 00:02:59.600 --> 00:03:01.460 There's always scheduling difficulties. 00:03:01.600 --> 00:03:06.320 We try to do, you know, our recording on Friday mornings. 00:03:06.330 --> 00:03:09.240 We try to get into a routine and have that going, 00:03:09.310 --> 00:03:11.760 and so we schedule those in advance, 00:03:11.880 --> 00:03:14.880 but there are always the outliers. 00:03:15.040 --> 00:03:17.580 There's always the changing in schedules. 00:03:17.820 --> 00:03:19.580 There's always the confusion. 00:03:19.740 --> 00:03:22.340 So there's always something that goes on that you just 00:03:22.340 --> 00:03:25.540 have to remain flexible and you have to be able to accommodate 00:03:26.300 --> 00:03:26.660 difference. 00:03:27.160 --> 00:03:29.680 Again, interviewing people around the globe, 00:03:29.760 --> 00:03:33.380 we're talking to somebody next week from Brisbane, Australia. 00:03:33.640 --> 00:03:35.680 So we're, all right, so how are we 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:36.920 going to do the time schedules? 00:03:37.260 --> 00:03:37.860 All right, so-- 00:03:37.880 --> 00:03:38.580 He's getting up early. 00:03:38.860 --> 00:03:39.780 He's a day ahead. 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:43.140 So all of those factors are coming to play. 00:03:44.100 --> 00:03:52.160 And I don't think that we have a great, wonderful process for it. 00:03:52.200 --> 00:03:54.360 I think it's probably the process that most people do. 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:55.840 It's kind of a back and forth. 00:03:55.980 --> 00:04:01.620 And we have a scheduling email system that we send people to. 00:04:01.760 --> 00:04:03.740 But sometimes we got to work outside of that, too. 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:04.240 Yeah. 00:04:05.740 --> 00:04:09.060 How about-- you mentioned Nobel laureates and high profile people. 00:04:09.070 --> 00:04:11.180 I mean, I knew some of the people on your site, 00:04:11.180 --> 00:04:12.160 and I'm not in that space. 00:04:12.860 --> 00:04:14.100 How does the pitch go? 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:15.600 Like, hey, do you want to come on our podcast 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:16.680 and talk about this thing? 00:04:16.820 --> 00:04:19.120 Like, do you have a couple of topics 00:04:19.220 --> 00:04:20.200 that you pitch to them? 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:22.740 Or like, what-- because I think that's something 00:04:22.860 --> 00:04:24.240 that folks struggle with, is like, hey, 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:25.140 I want to have this person on. 00:04:25.880 --> 00:04:26.680 What does that look like? 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:31.200 Yeah, we have a different approach depending on people. 00:04:31.320 --> 00:04:33.620 So we're approached a lot ourselves. 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:35.820 But obviously, there's people that we want to go after, 00:04:35.980 --> 00:04:38.260 and to try to get on the show that we think 00:04:38.320 --> 00:04:40.160 are going to be really good guests. 00:04:40.740 --> 00:04:42.920 Most of the time, again, we're talking 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:46.440 with behavioral scientists, researchers, Nobel laureates, 00:04:46.440 --> 00:04:46.900 as you said. 00:04:46.960 --> 00:04:48.040 We've gotten a couple of those. 00:04:48.740 --> 00:04:51.500 High profile people that have best-selling books 00:04:51.580 --> 00:04:53.760 and various different things in the topic areas that we want. 00:04:54.380 --> 00:04:58.100 So when we do this, we try to bring 00:04:58.200 --> 00:05:01.340 some of the behavioral science that we talk about on the show 00:05:01.460 --> 00:05:01.920 into that. 00:05:02.499 --> 00:05:05.980 So when we craft an email, different pieces, 00:05:06.260 --> 00:05:10.340 obviously, like everybody, if we have a warm introduction, 00:05:10.540 --> 00:05:12.740 that's much better than a cold kind of calling. 00:05:12.940 --> 00:05:16.260 So if there's anybody that knows, we often ask our guests, 00:05:16.520 --> 00:05:18.340 hey, who do you think would be a good guest? 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.620 And oftentimes, they'll lead us down a really nice path. 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:24.700 And that's always a much easier sell to get people back on, 00:05:24.880 --> 00:05:26.740 particularly if they do the introduction 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:29.060 and talk about how much fun they had with us 00:05:29.060 --> 00:05:29.960 in various different pieces. 00:05:30.520 --> 00:05:32.880 But two, one of the things is, as you mentioned, 00:05:33.440 --> 00:05:35.360 we don't necessarily pitch a topic 00:05:35.520 --> 00:05:37.760 unless we know they have a book or something coming out. 00:05:38.100 --> 00:05:40.680 Most of the time, the really top tier ones 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:42.540 aren't necessarily that. 00:05:42.660 --> 00:05:44.200 But we will talk about their research. 00:05:44.700 --> 00:05:48.440 So we'll talk about how we have been fans of their research 00:05:48.440 --> 00:05:52.680 and maybe bring in some very specific elements around that 00:05:52.820 --> 00:05:56.980 to say, hey, this paper from 2006 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.480 really inspired us to think about things 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:00.140 in a different way. 00:06:00.220 --> 00:06:02.740 We'd love to talk to you about that or anything else. 00:06:02.940 --> 00:06:06.240 And then the other part that we do is we do social proof. 00:06:06.340 --> 00:06:07.760 And we talk about the-- 00:06:07.760 --> 00:06:09.900 we mention, all right, we've won awards. 00:06:10.280 --> 00:06:13.200 We mentioned that it's a casual, fun thing, 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:15.240 but we also get into, and we've had 00:06:15.460 --> 00:06:17.040 these other guests on the show. 00:06:17.410 --> 00:06:20.600 And as you said, you hopefully recognize some people, 00:06:20.660 --> 00:06:21.500 and you're not in the space. 00:06:21.900 --> 00:06:23.740 People who are in the space will definitely 00:06:23.900 --> 00:06:24.980 recognize those names. 00:06:25.030 --> 00:06:28.740 And so, oh, that will be a good piece on this. 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:31.500 So that's the process that we use. 00:06:31.500 --> 00:06:34.500 And again, we alter that based upon personalities. 00:06:34.820 --> 00:06:38.380 And if we know something about them, so those, that's what we do. 00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:39.120 Yeah. 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.020 I mean, I'm sure it's changed a lot in the kind of years since you've been doing it. 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:43.180 Right. 00:06:43.180 --> 00:06:46.040 Do you find it easier to get people on now that you have like a good 00:06:46.280 --> 00:06:47.340 following and kind of name in the space? 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:47.580 Yeah. 00:06:48.580 --> 00:06:53.300 An anecdote, like I've been podcasting for seven years, but this is a brand new show. 00:06:53.420 --> 00:06:54.920 What this is the ninth episode we've recorded. 00:06:55.420 --> 00:06:58.660 Uh, and it's really hard to get someone on a podcast that hasn't even launched yet. 00:06:58.720 --> 00:06:59.920 Like we just launched it last week. 00:07:00.380 --> 00:07:03.759 Um, as we're recording this, it's super hard, even though we have like a decent 00:07:03.760 --> 00:07:04.640 name in the space and everything. 00:07:05.400 --> 00:07:08.580 Um, so like, yeah, I'll say it gets easier for me. 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:10.560 It is, it's a lot easier. 00:07:10.580 --> 00:07:11.900 People are searching you out. 00:07:12.060 --> 00:07:14.060 You're getting requests, your name is known. 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:19.400 So even if you do, hopefully you, there's some brand recognition within that. 00:07:19.820 --> 00:07:24.840 The thing that has amazed me though, and that we learned relatively early on, and 00:07:24.880 --> 00:07:28.879 I don't think this is unique to this, the space that we're in, I think this is just 00:07:28.880 --> 00:07:32.960 a general human thing is that just ask. 00:07:33.700 --> 00:07:35.060 Ask politely, ask nicely. 00:07:35.860 --> 00:07:41.600 But it is amazing how people respond to that. 00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:45.800 We got people that there was no reason they would have ever 00:07:45.880 --> 00:07:48.300 come on-- they should have ever come on our podcast when 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:51.820 we had 20 episodes and a following of a couple hundred. 00:07:52.180 --> 00:07:55.460 And they're like, sure, that sounds great. 00:07:55.580 --> 00:07:56.260 We'll come on. 00:07:56.460 --> 00:07:58.380 And it's just-- you go, what? 00:07:58.560 --> 00:07:59.980 Wait, I wasn't expecting that. 00:08:00.020 --> 00:08:01.500 I was thinking you were going to say no. 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:03.660 All right, now we actually have to do some work. 00:08:04.200 --> 00:08:05.220 But yeah, those are fun. 00:08:05.700 --> 00:08:06.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:08:07.140 --> 00:08:09.820 You mentioned the subject matter that you all-- 00:08:09.820 --> 00:08:10.800 that you podcast on. 00:08:10.840 --> 00:08:14.040 It's a lot about behavioral psychology. 00:08:14.540 --> 00:08:18.300 Do you find the subject matter difficult to speak on 00:08:18.860 --> 00:08:22.640 in a podcast audio-only format where people can't see you 00:08:22.660 --> 00:08:24.140 and they might not know you? 00:08:24.140 --> 00:08:25.840 I mean, after 350 episodes, you've 00:08:25.900 --> 00:08:26.640 probably gotten good at it. 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:28.800 Like, what's that dynamic like? 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:33.020 No, so it's a long format style. 00:08:33.349 --> 00:08:37.080 And so one of the things that I think plays out really well 00:08:37.289 --> 00:08:41.820 is that both Tim, my co-host, and myself really just-- 00:08:41.820 --> 00:08:46.060 we are constantly just wanting to learn. 00:08:46.190 --> 00:08:49.240 And so like you talked earlier, like the ability 00:08:49.400 --> 00:08:51.320 to talk to these people to learn from them. 00:08:51.690 --> 00:08:53.380 And so we're just having conversations. 00:08:53.680 --> 00:08:56.160 And those conversations sometimes 00:08:56.240 --> 00:09:00.120 are directed by, hey, this is a specific topic or book 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:02.500 that we want to talk about. 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:06.840 But even then, it's just this idea of, tell me more about 00:09:06.900 --> 00:09:11.380 that, help me understand why you did this, or what this implies, 00:09:11.540 --> 00:09:12.400 or what this means. 00:09:12.400 --> 00:09:17.400 And I think that energy of having that curiosity, I think, 00:09:17.460 --> 00:09:19.860 is a really big piece of this. 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:21.740 And I think that translates. 00:09:21.920 --> 00:09:23.860 And so from a scientific perspective, 00:09:24.780 --> 00:09:28.400 we're talking about human biases and heuristics 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:31.640 and some of the neurobiology sometimes. 00:09:31.740 --> 00:09:34.340 And yeah, would it be great to have some diagrams 00:09:34.460 --> 00:09:36.300 and different pieces when you get some of the technical 00:09:36.500 --> 00:09:36.800 aspects? 00:09:37.520 --> 00:09:38.400 That's fantastic. 00:09:38.640 --> 00:09:40.580 But I don't think it's necessary. 00:09:41.180 --> 00:09:43.140 And I think one of the other things that we did-- 00:09:43.140 --> 00:09:44.940 and we started this actually right away, 00:09:45.230 --> 00:09:46.599 kind of by happenstance-- 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:51.760 is we do our long format interview, usually 00:09:52.020 --> 00:09:55.440 45 minutes to an hour, sometimes a little bit more, 00:09:55.530 --> 00:09:56.480 sometimes a little bit less. 00:09:57.090 --> 00:10:00.300 But then we, in post-production, Tim and I 00:10:00.300 --> 00:10:03.320 do what we call a grooving session, where we then 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:05.040 take what we heard. 00:10:05.380 --> 00:10:08.800 So we publish the long format in its entirety. 00:10:09.730 --> 00:10:12.420 And then we go and we groove on it, basically. 00:10:12.560 --> 00:10:13.340 It's behavioral groove. 00:10:13.460 --> 00:10:15.160 So we're grooving on what we learned. 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.760 And so if it gets really technical in the conversation, 00:10:19.550 --> 00:10:21.060 in the grooving session, we'll try 00:10:21.060 --> 00:10:23.880 to break that down into more common language 00:10:23.880 --> 00:10:24.600 and implications. 00:10:25.250 --> 00:10:27.520 And we often talk to people who are maybe 00:10:28.060 --> 00:10:30.820 less on the research side and on application side, 00:10:30.860 --> 00:10:33.140 or as we call accidental behavioral scientists 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:33.540 sometimes. 00:10:34.260 --> 00:10:38.020 And so then we'll bring in the science part on the back end. 00:10:38.020 --> 00:10:42.440 And so it's kind of a nice way to measure that out, 00:10:42.640 --> 00:10:46.560 So that if it is highly technical in some 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:48.360 of the nature of what people are talking about, 00:10:48.650 --> 00:10:51.260 we can break that down at the back end or vice versa. 00:10:51.640 --> 00:10:52.280 Yeah, yeah. 00:10:52.470 --> 00:10:54.720 Do you release those as two separate episodes 00:10:54.810 --> 00:10:56.660 or the same episode, just different segments? 00:10:57.100 --> 00:10:57.900 Same episode. 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.360 So there was-- so I will take a caveat on that 354 episodes, 00:11:01.540 --> 00:11:02.420 because there was a period-- 00:11:02.420 --> 00:11:03.200 You jeered a little. 00:11:03.300 --> 00:11:06.420 There was a period in there where we thought, 00:11:06.700 --> 00:11:08.980 oh, maybe we should just break these up, 00:11:09.180 --> 00:11:10.399 because that would be-- 00:11:10.400 --> 00:11:13.440 And so we did that for probably, I think, 10 episodes, 10, 00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:14.160 15 episodes. 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:17.860 So subtract that off of the top of there, 00:11:17.980 --> 00:11:20.060 because those are really part one and part 00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:22.380 two of the same episode in my mind. 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:25.580 But yeah, we realized that it actually 00:11:25.860 --> 00:11:29.340 decreased people listening to the second part of it, 00:11:29.920 --> 00:11:31.640 and it wasn't necessarily tied in. 00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:34.800 So we just rolled it back in. 00:11:35.400 --> 00:11:36.500 Yeah, yeah, interesting. 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:41.460 I think from a, like from a workload, workflow perspective, what you do with 00:11:41.500 --> 00:11:45.100 the grooves is, is sometimes really challenging for customers. 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:47.820 You know, we have like a professional services arm to, to our business. 00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:50.940 And we have customers that come in and say that they want to do this thing, right? 00:11:51.020 --> 00:11:53.080 They're going to go interview someone for 45 minutes, then take and 00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:54.400 do a 10 minute monologue on it. 00:11:54.800 --> 00:12:00.560 And we always warn them like, okay, if you're going to do that, do not leave 00:12:00.680 --> 00:12:05.479 that chair until you've recorded it right after the interview is over, because 00:12:05.800 --> 00:12:10.120 What's going to happen is you got another thing at two 30 and you're going to leave 00:12:10.180 --> 00:12:12.400 and you're going to come back six days later when you have to send the episode 00:12:12.580 --> 00:12:14.540 to us and you're not going to remember what you just talked about. 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:16.480 Like, have you all you're smiling? 00:12:16.560 --> 00:12:18.340 Like, have you all run into that? 00:12:18.380 --> 00:12:21.960 Or have you just have like a process to where you, your cohost keeps you honest 00:12:22.040 --> 00:12:25.080 and y'all just do that while you're at the sitting, we do a process. 00:12:25.380 --> 00:12:28.960 So we actually don't record right after we don't do the post-production 00:12:29.180 --> 00:12:30.020 immediately afterwards. 00:12:30.130 --> 00:12:32.580 And so we will get the recording. 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:35.280 We will get a transcript of that. 00:12:35.640 --> 00:12:36.380 We take notes. 00:12:36.380 --> 00:12:41.720 We have our producer research associate who typically listens 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:43.700 in and is taking notes as well. 00:12:44.140 --> 00:12:47.480 And so then what we do is we will actually 00:12:47.660 --> 00:12:50.880 sit down after the fact, go through the transcript, 00:12:51.340 --> 00:12:54.220 kind of highlight areas that we want to pull out, 00:12:54.780 --> 00:12:55.520 set up an outline. 00:12:55.560 --> 00:12:59.000 So we actually-- we're not scripting the grooving session, 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:00.600 but we're outlining it. 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.060 And then we're bringing in-- so again, as I talked about, 00:13:03.620 --> 00:13:05.620 part of it is if there isn't-- 00:13:05.620 --> 00:13:07.440 don't get deep into some of the science, 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:08.880 or even if we get into the science, 00:13:09.510 --> 00:13:11.200 we might bring in tangential science. 00:13:11.280 --> 00:13:15.080 So we will-- and again, I'm sounding very technical on here, 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:17.560 and it's not, but we will often bring in like, 00:13:17.930 --> 00:13:22.060 oh, this references this paper from 2018, 00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:26.620 and that was by these authors, or we'll 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:27.800 bring in some of those pieces. 00:13:27.940 --> 00:13:29.480 So we'll actually do that research 00:13:30.140 --> 00:13:32.720 prior to doing the grooving session so that we have that 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:34.800 and we can talk intelligently about that. 00:13:35.140 --> 00:13:36.440 So bringing that piece in. 00:13:36.560 --> 00:13:40.840 So I'm smiling because the amount of-- 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:41.860 it would be so easy. 00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:46.240 It'd be so nice to be able to just do an interview and stop, 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:48.420 and all you got to do is your intro. 00:13:48.680 --> 00:13:50.100 And wow, that would be-- 00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:51.640 oh my gosh, that would be so simple. 00:13:51.780 --> 00:13:57.620 But we are spending hours in the research part of following up 00:13:57.780 --> 00:14:00.000 on doing the grooving session and then the recording of that. 00:14:00.160 --> 00:14:02.480 And again, those are 10 to 20 minutes typically, 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:03.880 so they're not super long. 00:14:04.340 --> 00:14:08.200 But that's 10 to 20 minutes that can be, um, you know, that a few 00:14:08.460 --> 00:14:10.380 hours every time going into that. 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:11.440 So, yeah. 00:14:11.780 --> 00:14:11.900 Yeah. 00:14:12.060 --> 00:14:14.280 I think like, that's just good. 00:14:14.780 --> 00:14:18.820 I'll say advice slash warning to folks who say like, Hey, I want to do this kind 00:14:18.820 --> 00:14:23.620 of special extra segment after an, after an interview, it's like, we say it's just 00:14:23.630 --> 00:14:25.180 as much work as doing a full interview. 00:14:25.540 --> 00:14:27.320 So like, uh, it's great. 00:14:27.400 --> 00:14:30.420 It's, it's a huge value to the listeners, I think, but, but, but 00:14:30.430 --> 00:14:31.600 it's, it's just a ton of work. 00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:34.400 So kudos to y'all for pulling it off. 00:14:34.560 --> 00:14:38.860 - Yeah, to that point, I would echo that. 00:14:39.300 --> 00:14:42.100 I think there's a huge value in that, 00:14:42.300 --> 00:14:47.020 but I also that the amount of effort going into that part 00:14:47.640 --> 00:14:48.960 might not be on par, 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:51.740 but pretty close to the interview itself. 00:14:51.860 --> 00:14:53.420 So you're doubling your workload. 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:55.020 - Yeah, yeah, interesting. 00:14:55.780 --> 00:14:58.320 I'd like to ask about how the podcast 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:00.600 kind of serves you and Tim professionally, 00:15:00.780 --> 00:15:04.300 Like, what's the dynamic there with your kind 00:15:04.300 --> 00:15:05.140 of professional life? 00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:08.100 Like, how does the podcast interact or kind of serve that? 00:15:08.280 --> 00:15:12.620 Yeah, so Tim and I started it-- actually, it was just on a-- 00:15:12.660 --> 00:15:13.880 we didn't even plan to start it. 00:15:13.940 --> 00:15:17.760 We were doing a meetup locally here in Minnesota, which was-- 00:15:17.760 --> 00:15:20.880 we wanted to-- Tim had left his job and started a consultancy. 00:15:21.020 --> 00:15:22.340 I had been having a consultancy. 00:15:22.940 --> 00:15:24.900 We both were working in behavioral science. 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:28.020 So ours is a behavioral design and communication agency. 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:31.220 And so we bring in behavioral science all the time 00:15:31.280 --> 00:15:33.960 and use that as kind of the lens that we approach work from. 00:15:34.400 --> 00:15:37.020 And we just wanted to build a community within Minneapolis. 00:15:37.300 --> 00:15:39.200 And so we did one of those meetups. 00:15:39.700 --> 00:15:42.480 Second meetup, we had a guest that was going to come speak. 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.520 And we're going, oh, we're going to get 25 people to this. 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:49.720 And he's a pretty well-known speaker in the field. 00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:52.000 And I had just done a radio interview. 00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:55.780 Tim is a musician, so he has all this musical recording 00:15:55.940 --> 00:15:56.160 equipment. 00:15:56.800 --> 00:15:58.680 And so we came up with this great idea of saying, 00:15:59.020 --> 00:16:01.520 hey, let's just record-- 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:04.620 we'll have our guests come in, because there's 00:16:04.640 --> 00:16:05.360 a monthly meetup. 00:16:05.800 --> 00:16:07.060 Have them come in an hour early. 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:09.800 We'll record them before talking about what 00:16:09.820 --> 00:16:10.520 they're going to talk about. 00:16:10.940 --> 00:16:12.020 And then we'll just publish that. 00:16:12.020 --> 00:16:12.940 And it'll be once a month. 00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:14.260 It'll be great, easy to do. 00:16:14.540 --> 00:16:14.740 Easy. 00:16:14.920 --> 00:16:15.560 Yeah, easy. 00:16:16.380 --> 00:16:16.940 Here you are. 00:16:17.040 --> 00:16:17.760 And here we are. 00:16:18.920 --> 00:16:20.340 And the meetup, we don't even do anymore. 00:16:21.740 --> 00:16:23.940 But the concept was building that community. 00:16:24.040 --> 00:16:27.160 And so the community for us is still really kind of key 00:16:27.340 --> 00:16:27.920 on this. 00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:32.320 And so again, the fact that I have a podcast, 00:16:32.920 --> 00:16:35.180 Tim has left his consultancy and is now 00:16:35.300 --> 00:16:37.880 the head behavioral scientist at a large bank. 00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:41.900 But still, by having that community, 00:16:42.640 --> 00:16:46.240 we've expanded our reach into who we can tap into, 00:16:46.900 --> 00:16:49.340 the insights, as you said, just kind of learning from this. 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.279 I'm constantly amazed at the insights 00:16:52.280 --> 00:16:54.100 that we're getting from the interviews, 00:16:54.560 --> 00:16:57.240 that it directly applies to the work 00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:58.300 that we're doing with our clients. 00:16:58.400 --> 00:17:01.260 And so I can take what we heard on Friday, 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.900 and Monday we're applying some of those insights 00:17:05.069 --> 00:17:06.500 into some of the work that we do. 00:17:07.100 --> 00:17:10.160 And the context and the other pieces, 00:17:10.439 --> 00:17:11.819 we've gotten connections. 00:17:12.100 --> 00:17:13.560 And some of that has led to work. 00:17:14.740 --> 00:17:16.000 We'd like more of that. 00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:19.319 It isn't a sure thing, but it definitely has led to work. 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:22.699 But it's led to increased kind of exposure, 00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:27.900 increased kind of feelings of expertise that we have 00:17:27.939 --> 00:17:29.460 and that we can bring to the table. 00:17:30.060 --> 00:17:31.040 Yeah, yeah, interesting. 00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:33.220 What advice would you give folks? 00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:36.140 Because I think a lot of people are in a similar boat to you, 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:36.260 right? 00:17:36.320 --> 00:17:38.540 They have an agency or consultancy. 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:39.180 They're professionals. 00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:41.820 They have a podcast or wanted to get a podcast. 00:17:41.820 --> 00:17:43.360 But I think a lot of folks are still 00:17:43.430 --> 00:17:45.520 kind of scared about, hey, how will I 00:17:45.600 --> 00:17:47.919 be perceived in my space if I start a podcast 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:50.880 I'm talking outside of work about, you know, professional things. 00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:55.040